Rami Hammoud finished 6th in the 2026 World Series of Poker Main Event, winning $1.75 million. Before the final table, he hired me (Zach Elwood) to study poker tells/behavior in the footage of his opponents. In this talk, Rami shares the story behind his journey to winning a life-changing amount of money, including how he almost left Las Vegas before the Main Event began, and how a mindset of having nothing to lose helped him play fearlessly. He talks about how studying poker tells transformed his approach to the game, sharing specific hands where behavioral clues helped him make decisions—and others where relying on such clues backfired. We discuss the psychology of high-stakes decisions, why even highly experienced poker players can be reluctant to trust behavioral reads, how the fear of looking foolish can lead to suboptimal decision-making. We also talk about some dynamics from the final table, including a call that many people thought was one of the worst calls in the history of WSOP Main Event final tables. This is a talk about risk, high-stakes decision-making, anxiety, confidence, and the way people can reveal hidden information through their behavior.
Episode links:
- YouTube (includes video)
- Spotify
- Apple Podcasts
Related resources:
- Rami’s shout-outs:
- Frequently asked poker tell questions
- A talk with Luke Geel, creator of a poker tells AI program
TRANSCRIPT
(part of transcript is generated automatically so there will be errors)
Rami Hammoud: This happened to me in a WSOP event in 2025. We were on the river. I have two pairs. My opponent was all in, and there was a straight possible on the board. And I was, like, 50/50. And so I was looking at him, and I noticed that he was taking, like, big gulps. Now, looking back at it, they were definitely exaggerated gulps that nobody takes. But at the time, it was the first time I see this and I’m like, “Oh my God, like, he’s gulping. Okay, he must be really, really nervous.” Like, damn, I was so close to folding, but that really switched it to me calling. And of course, he had the nuts. And I went to see him after. I’m like, “Dude, like, you were gulping so much.” He’s like, “Finally. I finally got someone with this.” So the guy had been doing this for, like, many years and he’s like, “I knew someday it would come, that someone would fall for it, and it would be worth it.”
Zachary Elwood: That was a clip from my talk with Rami Hammoud, who won $1.75 million in this year’s World Series of Poker Main Event by cashing in sixth place out of an entry field of more than 9200 players. This episode will discuss Rami’s journey to that life-changing tournament win; what his poker journey was like in the years prior to it, and in that event specifically; he talks about the strange experience of suddenly realizing he’s made more than a million dollars, and the surreal nature of all the attention, and the uniquely high-stakes nature of the situation. We talk about Rami’s views on poker tells, and how those views have changed over time. We talk about the rewards and risks of basing decisions in poker on small, subtle behaviors. We talk about Rami’s view of my work.
My name is Zach Elwood and if you didn’t already know about my background, I’m a former professional poker player and my biggest claim to fame is having written some respected books on poker tells. If you’re curious about that work of mine, go to readingpokertells.com. So earlier this year, in June, Rami reached out to me after making the final table and wanted to know if I’d be up for consulting for him before the final table. He had a few weeks to prepare, and this meant there was time to examine the footage of Rami and his final table opponents from the footage leading up to the final table, and do some analysis. I’d done work like that before; this was actually my third time consulting for a World Series of Poker Main Event final table player. And as luck would have it, and as I told Rami, I’m actually at the peak of my game right now in terms of doing this work, because I’ve been consulting for the past year, several times a month, for a high stakes poker player; that consulting consists of watching livestreams with the hole cards hidden and the sound off, to go in bias-free and see what we see. That has been extremely educational for me. If you’re curious what that kind of consulting entails, check out the Consulting page on my readingpokertells.com website.
So this work I did for Rami was what led to us talking for this episode. I thought it would be interesting to delve into Rami’s view of poker tells, and get into some nuance about those things that I rarely have discussed with anyone, especially publicly. We get into some specific hands from the World Series of Poker Main Event, including one hand that happened between the final two players, Jumalon and Saaskilahti, where Jumalon made an interesting verbal statement and then Saaskilahti made what many people were saying was arguably the worst call ever seen at a World Series of Poker final table. Whether you’re a poker player or whether you’re just interested in reading people or in decision-making under pressure, I think this episode has a lot of interesting stuff for a wide range of people.
I’ll mention too that I recently created one of the most complete and in-depth public resources I’ve ever put out there for poker tells. I honestly think it’s the best publicly available resource ever created on poker tells, at least one that is organized and has a bunch of info in one place; You can find it at www.readingpokertells.com/faqs, that’s readingpokertells.com slash FAQS for frequently asked questions. It includes some highly nuanced thoughts on some common questions. If you’ve listened to this podcast in the past, one question you might be wondering is: how is it that you so often criticize so-called body language “experts” like Joe Navarro and others, and their claims of being able to use nonverbal behavior, and yet be a proponent of using poker tells; so that question, and other in-depth questions, are addressed in that resource.
The first half of our talk is about Rami’s experience making the final table, and what that was like, so if you would rather skip to the more behavior- and poker-tells-related portion of our talk, skip ahead to about the 30 minute mark and it’ll start a little after that.
Okay here’s the talk with Rami Hammoud, sixth place winner in this year’s World Series of Poker Main Event…
Rami Hammoud: Hey, how’s it going? It’s a pleasure to be here, man. Thank you for having me.
Zachary Elwood: Oh, yeah. No, really appreciate it. Um, maybe we could start with a little bit about how you view your journey winding up on the final table. Um, maybe you could talk a little bit a- about how many times you’ve, uh, played the World Series program main event, and how many tournaments, tournaments you play in general, how long you’ve been playing seriously, that kind of thing that led you to the final table.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. I’d be happy to. So I’m 36 years of age right now, and I started playing when I was 16. Um, it was a funny story. It was, uh, we were on a field trip to New York, and there’s rumors going around that our English teacher was a poker player. We were all shy. We would not ask him about it, so I finally mustered the courage to ask him some point.
I was like, “Hey, could you explain to us the rules of poker?” And I’ll never forget it, like, on the back of a napkin, he just wrote down the rules, right? And he gave it to me. And we ended up playing, like me and my friends, again, we’re like, we’re 16. We played, me and my friends, all night that night in, in New York.
We got in trouble for that, but that’s beside the point, and I just fell in love with the game, right? So I think… And I started off like most people do, you know, just playing with friends for $5, uh, sitting goes, and then that turned into like one cent, two cent cash games. And then when I became 18, um, ’cause that’s the legal age in where you can play and gamble here in, in, in Montreal at least, um, started playing casinos, playing cash games- And then I think it was 2015 or 2016, I got my first taste of a tournament win, and there is nothing like a tournament win, man.
It is so addictive, and I’m like, “This is what I want. I want this feeling again.” So I just, like, started focusing on tournament poker. And a- another thing that tournament provides to me is, like, look, I have my 9:00 to 5:00 job, right? And I really do see cash game, like, work. So I’m like, well, I don’t really need to, like, supplement my current work, my current career with another job, right?
Versus tournament is more like buying a lottery, right? Yeah. Like, look at the price. I’m like, oh my God, like, I can win, like, X thousands or millions of dollars, right? So I kinda enjoy that aspect. Um-
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, it’s a more exciting, like, one-time event thing. Yeah. Yeah, versus, like, an ongoing grind kind of thing, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: 100%, 100%. And, and, and, and don’t get me wrong, I’m, I’m not a cash game, you know, expert by any means, but even in terms of stimulation, I just don’t get stimulated by cash games. I feel like there’s just not that many variables. And again, I’m not saying like, oh my God, like, I would solve cash game. No, not at all.
But in tournaments, there’s just so many… Every hand is different because you have so many different variables, right? Mm-hmm. Obviously, you have, like, the, the blinds, the anti-structure, the stages in the tournament, the stack sizes are always different. In cash game you’re always deep, right? Um, ICM considerations, it’s just, like, so much more happening, right?
Um-
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, and the, and the chance of a big score- So, yeah … gets your blood pumping more than, you know, the, the, the ongoing steadiness of the cash gr- cash games, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And yeah, but, you know, poker for me has always been more of a recreational thing, and I did try doing this professionally back in, right after I graduated university, so this is when I was 23, and I tried it for six months.
And I remember the feeling that when the thing that you love the most, okay, the passion that you adore becomes your work, it all of a sudden loses that touch, and that’s what was happening to me, right? And not only that, but like, look, in my 9:00 to 5:00 job, if I have a bad performance or if I have good performance, I also get paid the same salary, right?
However, in poker, regardless of your performance, you can actually get, you know, pay cut, uh, pay deducted from you, right? And so imagine, like, having to lose, you know, having several losing sessions, and you kinda- you have to continue playing because this is your job. It was too stressful for me, man. So I knew fairly early, uh, in my life that poker was never gonna be sort of my primary source of income.
Right. But I always knew it was gonna be, like, my passion,
Zachary Elwood: right? I can definitely relate to that. I mean, from a, from an early time too, even including back when I played for a living for, like, three years, three and a half years. It never was something I n- I, I always knew I was never gonna do it long term, ’cause I, I, I’m, uh, I’m, I’m a pretty anxious person, and, like, the swings and kind of, like, the depressing nature of doing it for a long period too- Dude
it kind of really dragged on me, and, uh … Yeah, there were several factors where I was like, I can relate to that, where it’s like I, I, I never really wanted to play it for a living, even when I was doing it.
Rami Hammoud: And you were playing cash games, right, from what I remember, from what you wrote
Zachary Elwood: in your book? Yeah, I’ve never played- I think you were cash game
I’ve barely played tournaments. Yeah. Like, and I, I was gonna ask you about- Right … how many times you’ve played. Um, I’ve played a few- Yeah … tournaments, and I can, I can relate to the excitement, ’cause I’ve, I’ve never won one, but I’ve gotten close for some lower stage ones- Yep … and such. But yeah, I can relate to the excitement.
But I was curious, um, yeah, how many, how many times you’d, uh, entered the main event for one thing.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. A- and before I answer that, though, I also wanna say, like, I totally emphasize what you said- Poker, even till today, it definitely doesn’t bring the best out of me. It is a toxic environment, right? And I can truly tell you that when I’m at a poker table, it, it, it definitely doesn’t bring out the best in me, right?
Um, I’m, I’m more impatient, I’m surrounded by people that, you know, I wouldn’t say that the poker players are bad, but it’s not the, you know, the, the highest subset of group of, of, of people, right? Again, no, no disrespect to any poker players out there, uh, myself included, by the way. It’s not something that I wanna be doing every single day, and I have the utmost respect for people that do this for a living.
My God. And you know, people say like, “Oh yeah, like these guys, they have the freedom.” What freedom, man? These- We’re all- Like, they’re slaves to the game, right? That’s
Zachary Elwood: what, yeah. Like,
Rami Hammoud: of course-
Zachary Elwood: If you’re doing it for a living, it’s gonna be a grind at some level, unless you end up really lucky. But yeah, I, I can relate to everything you said.
I mean, I, I think I talk about this in my book even, that, um, playing poker full time and interacting with a lot of people in the live setting, it kinda made me… It, it brought out bad things in me. And, and, and again, like you said, everybody, I think it is important to emphasize everybody’s different, but I definitely liked myself less when I was playing a lot.
Like, I became more irritable, I became- I felt, like, more misanthropic- Mm-hmm … and these kinds of things, you know? And- Mm-hmm … it was something about that direct competition and being frustrated so often, you know? Um, yeah. Anyway, but carry on.
Rami Hammoud: Totally, man. Totally. I agree. Yeah, yeah. No, so I agree. I just want to, um, yeah, the- touch on that.
So, uh, main event. I started playing the main event in 2023, so I think it’s, like, what, four years now running. And it’s funny because the first three years, like, I don’t think I even made it ever… I never had over 100,000, right? So forget, like, money. I never even had, like, a decent stack at any point in time, right?
So definitely this run, um, gave me a lot of experiences that I had never experienced in previous iterations of the main event.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, that’s pretty good. And only did- So you did it three times, is that right?
Rami Hammoud: So three times plus this one, so four times in
Zachary Elwood: total. Oh, four times. Yeah, okay. So, uh, yeah, before we get into the poker tells, uh, kind of stuff, I was curious- Mm-hmm
I mean, how, how surreal was it to make the final table? Like, when- Is that, uh… Did you just- D- did it feel natural? Did it feel like, “Oh my God, I can’t believe I’m in this spot”? How, how, how did that feel for you?
Rami Hammoud: Natural or not. Um, you know, it’s like, it’s not even, it wasn’t even in my dreams to do this, right?
I know that a lot of people talk about like, “You need to believe, you need to believe.” Look, I’m more realistic. I’m like, look, I, I’m a numbers guy, I work in analytics. I know the probability of making the final table is very, very low, so it was never a belief, right? What I will say, though, is that during this run, I was quite disconnected from sort of the, the pressure that was bringing…
Especially up till Day 8, right? The final table itself was, was a bit of a different story, and I’ll tell you why. During this series, um, I was there for, like, two weeks or three weeks prior to the main event. Um, I was down like $20,000. And maybe for other poker players it’s not that much, but for me, you know, I’m a recreational poker player, 20,000.
I brought 21,000 with me, I was down to my last thousand. I’m like, “Dude,” like, “I’m, I’m done here.” Like, I really don’t wanna play anymore, you know? I’m fed up. I wasn’t playing well. We talked about, like, the toxic environment. I’m fed up. I wanna go home, you know? Every tournament that I was playing, I was busting within two hours before, like, the first break.
It was getting frustrating, and I’m like, “Look, I, I’m not, I’m not doing this for a living. I don’t have to stay here. I can go whenever I want,” right? And as fate may have it, um, I was walking around Vegas and I bumped into a poker player who’s from Montreal, which is where I reside. And I told my story and they’re like, “No, Rami,” like, “you must play,” like, you know, “If, if you, if you don’t wanna play,” like, “we’ll buy you in.”
And they really had the confidence in me and so I walked away from the conversation saying, like, “You know what? I should probably play this tournament.” Um, I had a thousand- Wow … dollars left. I- That’s a cool story. Yeah, yeah. I don’t- It is, yeah. I had a thousand dollars left, I played a satellite and, you know, again, as fate have it, I end up, um, making the, um, end, uh, getting the entry into the final table- Oh, it was a satellite
and so into the main event.
Zachary Elwood: I see, I see. I thought they were
Rami Hammoud: talking- Yeah, a satellite. So a thousand dollars- I thought they were, uh, talking into just- …
Zachary Elwood: into the main event … paying into it. I see, yeah. But that’s,
Rami Hammoud: that’s it. No, no, no, they were talking to me, they were talking to me into paying me into it. Oh.
Like, that was the deal. Oh. But like, I’m like, look, I don’t, I don’t wanna s- I don’t like selling action in general, right? So I’m like, look, if… It’s, that conversation gave me the confidence. If they have confidence in me- Oh, I see. I see … then I should probably have confidence in myself to play it, right?
Gotcha.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah,
Rami Hammoud: I gotcha. Um- I
Zachary Elwood: see.
Rami Hammoud: That’s cool … so yeah, so then end up playing it, but before entering this tournament, I’m like, look, if I’m gonna invest this money and this time, what’s going to be important for me is to maximize fun. I wanna make sure that I’m having a really good time this tournament, okay?
So that’s number one. So that mindset, all right? Number two, dude, I was ready to go home, man, which that’s why the mantra came up with, uh, the mantra that I had, which is, “I have a flight to catch.” And it was literal, okay? I would literally wake up in the morning, take my luggage, go to the front desk, check out, go play the day.
At the end of the day when I knew I was gonna play the next day, I would go back, get my luggage, and then book the, b- book the hotel, and then a rinse, repeat the next day, right? So look, I, I want to have fun, I didn’t really care, and that was, like, sort of the perfect recipe to sort of, you know, get me to where I wanted and make me feel, I guess- disconnected from it all.
Yeah. Right? Yeah. Essentially, like, it, it was only after day eight, it was only after we finished, I remember the, one of the first questions that interviewer asked me, ’cause it gets crazy. Once, once you become, like, once you, once the final table is set, they’re, like, getting you left and right to ask you questions.
And the first question that was asked to me was, “How does it feel to be a millionaire?” And I’m like, “What do you mean?” And I’m like, “Oh, shit. I’m a millionaire.” And it just hit me, right? So yeah, the run itself, it- it, up until day eight, up until the, the final table, I wasn’t really… I didn’t really understand what was happening, what we were playing for.
I was just there to have fun, man. I was just there to have a good time, you know, uh, acting the most genuine way possible, authentic to myself, and, and enjoy, enjoy my experience.
Zachary Elwood: Well, yeah, that stood out to me when, you know, when they did the, the little bit of interviews I watched during the final table, you talking about, uh, basically a really positive attitude of like, “Hey, we’re really lucky to be here, you know, this is th- this is an amazing experience no matter wh- how it ends up,” you know, and that kind of thing.
And th- yeah, that stood out to me- Yeah … as, you know, just as apart from the final table, it seems like, you know, just a great, um, a great way to view things no matter where you’re at, you know, viewing it in, in those terms. And, uh, it seems like it- sounds like from what you said, you were set up to basically have that attitude from the beginning of the tournament, where you were…
Yeah, you felt like you didn’t have anything to lose, and maybe that made you more comfortable making some, you know, being in the flow and making some plays that were risky and those kinds of things.
Rami Hammoud: Dude, not only was I ready to go home, but I was eager to go home at some point. So like that made, that allow me to play like a really, really crazy style at some point.
Zachary Elwood: Mm.
Rami Hammoud: You know, this wasn’t the same in my first three tries on the main event. I was playing like most of the players that played. It’s like as if my literal life was on the line. Right, right. Like if I lose, I die. Right, right. Right? That’s almost the display. Versus me this time around my fourth try, you know, it’s just like the perfect storm.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: So, you know- Yeah … if we go to next year, I don’t know if I can recreate that magic, right? Yeah. It’s really, really tough to recreate that sort of mindset, right? Like I can say it, I can verbalize it, but for example, I didn’t have that mindset at the final table, right? And I can talk about that a bit more- Mm
if you want. Yeah, let’s get-
Zachary Elwood: Uh, later on now up to you. L- let’s get to that, yeah, in a, in a little bit. I was gonna ask… Well, I was curious, you know, you seemed, um, you seem very comfortable on camera. I was curious, had- Mm-hmm … had you, uh, had you been on, featured in some media before? You just struck me as, as seeming quite comfortable in front of the cameras and such.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. No. No, man, quite the contrary. I’m quite introverted. Um, I’m highly anxious person. Uh, public speaking something that has been stressing me, especially in my adult life. But like I said, it, it was the perfect recipe, right? So, you know, I was there to have fun, I was ready to go home. But there’s also another pivotal moment that led to sort of this, this level of comfort, and it was on day six.
And so remember, there’s eight days, right, for our listeners, there’s eight days, and then after day eight, there’s a three-week pause, and then you play the final table, which is the final nine, okay? So on day six, it was the first time for me ever playing on stream, okay? So I didn’t know what it was like.
Mm. Um, it was of course a, a bit nerve-wracking. And as you know, Zach, like, there’s so many, there’s so many thoughts that go into your head when you’re playing poker, even if you’re not on stream, right? Like, so many decisions to take, so many variables to take into consideration. And then when I was on stream, I was thinking about thoughts that were intrusive that shouldn’t be there.
Like, okay, what are people gonna think about me? Yeah. What are my friends gonna think about me? What are poker players gonna think about my play, right? And so that’s just not a helpful part of the decision tree, right? So the next day, okay, I realized I, uh, my play was being impeded by this, right? So the next day in the morning, um, the morning of day seven, I called my close friends, okay, and I told them, “Look, guys, I don’t care what the world thinks about me.
What I care is what you guys think, okay? If I blunder, if I look like an idiot, will you still love me no matter what, right?” And of course they said, “Of course, Ranvir. Of course we’re gonna love you.” And it was quite an emotional, uh, conversation. Like, I teared a bit, you know? But after I sort of got that support from my friends and knowing that they have my back no matter what, like I was, I was ready to die at any point.
I was ready to look like the biggest idiot in the world. I had no fear anymore, you know, so bring on the streams, bring on the cameras, you know. I was ready to continue playing my game. I had all the freedom that I needed.
Zachary Elwood: No, that’s great. Yeah. I mean, I-
Rami Hammoud: Yeah …
Zachary Elwood: the first time I played on stream, it was j- I’ve only done it, like, two or three times.
It was just a low stakes thing on Live at the Bike I think years and, years and years ago. But I was shocked at how nervous it made me. It was like, for that same reason, I was like, I just kept getting in my head like, “What are, how are people gonna judge this play?” And it just made me not even be able to think about the decision.
So I mean, that’s great however you were able to unlock that, uh, flow state- Yeah … and not be worried about that. I mean, that’s amazing. ‘Cause you did feel, yeah, you felt very loose, which is, which is a great thing to accomplish, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah, yeah. And, and I’ll say, like, another point I wanna add also is, like, I- when you know you’re nervous, right?
I, at least for my kind of personality, I like to push myself out of the comfort zone, and I’ll give an example of this. I think it was on day seven, so this is talking about the cameras now. So on day seven, I was chip leading with f- 50 player, 50 players to go, and Jeff Platt, who’s the interviewer, he comes up to me and is like, “Hey, Ranvir, like, do you mind if I interview you in a couple of minutes?”
And like, like any introverted person that’s afraid of public speaking, my first reaction was like, “Fuck no, fuck no, fuck…” Can I swear, by the way?
Zachary Elwood: Oh,
Rami Hammoud: yeah. Am I allowed to swear?
Zachary Elwood: Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Oh, great. So I was like, “Fuck no, fuck no, fuck no. Just say no, just say no, just say no.” But I’m like, man, how often am, am I gonna be chip leading in the main event with 50 players to go and getting interviewed by Jeff Platt?
So I’m like, you know what? F it. Let me just do it. If it doesn’t go well, whatever, I’ll never do interviews ever again, right? So I did it, and look, it wasn’t the best interview ever, okay? But looking back at it, it was like, okay, this is not bad, right? And then same with the streams. I looked at stream. Okay, it’s not too bad, right?
Then I did other interviews. And so it’s like this recursive evidence, right? That I was doing pretty well on camera, that it just gave me more sense of confidence and comfort to work with. And by the way, that has carried on till now. Like, for example, even this podcast, Zach. Like, had you asked me to do this last year, I’d be like, “Ah, I’m sorry.”
Find an excuse why not to do it, right? But here we are, because now I can be like, look, I’ve done a few of these. Podcast is a bit more long form. Let’s try it. If it doesn’t work, it doesn’t work. It looks bad. Whatever. We move on. I’ll never do another podcast again, and that’s it, right?
Zachary Elwood: No, yeah. No, I mean, it sounds like this whole experience has, yeah, been many, many firsts and many unique experiences for you, and widened your views of things.
Yeah, that’s, that’s awesome.
Rami Hammoud: 100%. A, a lot of people ask me, like, “Oh yeah,” like, you know, “How’s the money gonna change you?” And I always say the same thing, like, the, the money’s great, don’t get me wrong, like, you know, the money’s fantastic. But for me, it’s, it’s the experience that it brought, brought with it, right?
And the pre- the experience and sort of the empirical evidence I can rely on in order for me to move forward in life, right? I think this, I’ll be able to parlay this for something bigger, I’m, I’m certain of that, right? So that to me is what I’ll, um, you know, hold on to the most.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, I don’t know if this is too personal, but, uh, you didn’t quit your day job, you kept doing what you were doing.
Is that true?
Rami Hammoud: Oh, yeah. Yeah, 100%, for multiple reasons. Um, number one, so I actually quit my job in June, and I had another job waiting for me in July, right? Now of course, in July I was busy for obvious reasons. Um, so they postponed my, uh, start date until August 10th, which was, like, literally a few days after the main event had done.
So, uh, the reason why I took that job was a couple reasons. Number one, I told them I was gonna start, and so I’m a quite loyal person, right? So if I give you my word, I’m gonna start, and they really need someone like me there. So- Mm. At least minimum, I was gonna give them a year. Like, let’s say I won $10 million, I was gonna give them a year and then see how I felt.
Number two, Zach, I was like, I was being glazed left, right, and center for a few months. I was the center of attention of everything. At some point, that gets to your mind, that gets to your ego, right? And for me, the best way to sort of get back to my regular life is to normalize that through a day job, right?
And so the fact that I was able to get back to my job, like, literally a few days after the main event was just so helpful for me, right? Mm. ‘Cause now, like, even now, it’s like I look back at the main event, it feels like, it feels ages ago, right? Because, like, I have, I have more things to worry about now, right?
I’m just back in my day-to-day. So yeah, those are the reasons why I, I chose to keep that job. And I, and I really enjoy it, by the way. It’s, it’s a really good job. It’s fun. I, I enjoy every moment of it.
Zachary Elwood: That’s great. Yeah, no, I think, I think it can be a trap to, like, fall into those, you know, for any, for people that achieve some success, there can be kind of a trap sometimes of, like, a temptation to- Go into areas that might not be the best long-term, and kinda like feed your ego in various ways.
But I do think, yeah- For sure … I think however you do it, it’s however people do it, it’s good to try to re- keep an even keel and think things through and think about, like, living in a, you know, having, having, uh, solid relationships with people and, and, um, yeah, trying not to feed the ego too much however, however you can avoid it.
‘Cause I, I, I’ve kinda- 100% … I’ve experienced some of that too where, you know, on a, on a lesser degree I think, where, like, I’d have some success, like with my Poker Tells books and videos, and people are like, “Oh, you should do X, Y, and Z. You should really lean into it and do all these things.” I’m like- Yeah … “No, I, I kinda-” Everyone has
Rami Hammoud: an opinion.
Zachary Elwood: I prefer, like, A, that might be really risky. B, I- Yeah … kind of like a more down-to-earth kind of a lifestyle in a lot of ways. So yeah, just to say, I think- Right … different, different experiences of course, but um-
Rami Hammoud: Yeah …
Zachary Elwood: can relate definitely in a way And that’s,
Rami Hammoud: and that’s at the end of the day, like … Yeah, and at the end of the day, like I, I made 1.7 million, right?
I don’t think it’s enough to retire on. Um, like if, if I was Jumalon or Siscolachi- Yeah. That’s a different story …
Zachary Elwood: we could have
Rami Hammoud: a different discussion. Yeah. It’s a different story, right? Then there’s more conversations to be had about, like, potentially retiring. But, you know, regardless, also given that year, um, just because, you know, based on what I said, um, you know, ’cause I gave them my word, and I want to normalize my life back, uh, back, I wanna bring my life back to normal as quickly as possible.
Zachary Elwood: And there would be people in your position too that, you know, even with the, the amount of money you won, there would be some people that’d be like, “Hell yeah, I’m going to do X, Y, Z. I’m gonna, you know, travel the world, start playing tournaments full-time,” or whatever it is, you know, the, these kinds of things.
So, you know, the, there is always that kind of temptation, um, when you achieve something like that, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: So I wanna touch on that because that’s a really interesting point, and I’ve had some helpful lessons throughout my years, which at the time I didn’t think they were helpful lessons. Okay? So remember when I told you, like, I got my first taste of, of my, uh, my first win at, at, at poker?
So it was a… The f- the, the prize that I won was $56,000, okay? Which to me at the time, at the age that I was, I don’t know, 24, 25, 26, like- Oh, yeah … oh my God, so much money.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: I end up spending $10,000 of that money throwing, like, a huge party for my friends, okay? So that’s stupid mistake number one. Stupid mistake number two, when you win a tournament, you get this high and level of confidence that now all of a sudden you are the best of the best, okay?
And so I start playing stakes that are way above my… way above what I should be playing and way above my skill level, and, uh, I got humbled real quickly, man. Real quickly. Yeah, you had the Jamie Gold
Zachary Elwood: experience.
Rami Hammoud: Right? And that was a ter- Yeah, exact- except for a s- a much smaller scale.
Zachary Elwood: A quick note here with regards to me mentioning Jamie Gold here.
I’m referencing a perception that after winning the main event, he jumped into high-stakes games in which he was highly outmatched and really had no business being in and lost a lot of money. So I wanna caveat my mention of Jamie here with the fact that I really know very little about Jamie’s overall poker journey or his total wins or losses.
For all I know, Jamie did quite well in un-televised games. My and others’ perceptions of him came from the televised games. Also, I wanna say that part of me actually respects Jamie for his willingness in going to test himself in those games. That’s honestly something I wouldn’t be able to do for better or worse.
So I wanted to caveat my kind of dismissive mention of Jamie Gold here with that nuance. I’ll also add that in my Poker Tells video series, I have a video dedicated to studying the verbal patterns of Jamie Gold in the 2006 World Series of Poker Main Event, where he won $12 million, because I think there were some highly meaningful patterns in his verbal approaches, and they’re patterns that map over to most verbal statements in poker in general.
Okay, back to the talk.
Rami Hammoud: So that was such a helpful lesson, a cheap lesson when you think about it, ’cause if this, if this was my first big tournament-
Zachary Elwood: Oh, yeah …
Rami Hammoud: maybe you’d see me, maybe you’d see me chatting right now, you know? Like, hey, I- how hard is this, right?
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, no, totally. So, um- It’s good to get that early.
I mean, I, I had a, I had a similar- 100% … you know, albeit a much smaller experience when, when I… back when I was playing for a living, ’cause I, I, I had… back when, uh, I didn’t really understand the, how the variance worked, and I would, like, act like I had really made it really big to some friends, and I still look back and it still makes me cringe ’cause I w- the way I was talking back then before, like, var-
some variance had set in. I was like- Mm … “Oh, look, you know, look at how much I’m making a month,” you know? And then then- … then, like, had some worse results and… But it, it still makes me cringe looking back about, like, how out of touch I was and, like, how egotistical- It’s amazing … I was, and that kind of thing, you know?
But anyway.
Rami Hammoud: That’s awesome.
Zachary Elwood: Uh, one quick question too before we get to the more- Yeah … poker tell stuff. I was curious- Mm-hmm … about the state of the poker industry, kind of about when you made the final table, how many s- uh, products and companies were reaching out to you for sponsorships? Is that still a big thing?
Rami Hammoud: So during the three weeks off in between day eight and the final table, I did get, uh, in touch with a few sponsors, and I did have some pretty, uh, generous offers. However, um, during the negotiations, I realized that I kind of wanted to go naked from sponsors. Okay? And I have this text message that I sent to one of the sponsors that I wanna read to you, okay?
And this, this shows you s- the level of mindset that I was working at at the time, okay? So I said, “But honestly, after thinking long about it, I think I’d much rather just go as me, naked from any sponsors. I just want to be able to, to be myself and express myself however, however I want without any expectations.
Eventually, I’m going to look back at this experience, and I want to look back at it knowing I was authentic to myself. A few dollars here and there won’t change much, but the experience will change everything.” Mm. Right? So, so that was sort of the mindset I was operating at. However, it was all for nothing because three days prior to the start of the main event, uh, final table, they sent us an email and saying, “Hey, guys, like, if you weren’t part of that sponsor since day one of the tournament, like, you’re not, you’re not allowed to bring them,” right?
So, you know, I was happy I’d reached that decision on my own, but- Oh … it would’ve been really awkward if I signed with someone and they send me, like, a bunch of merch, and I’m like, “Oh, what do I do with all this?” You know? ‘Cause I have to send it back.
Zachary Elwood: Oh. Um, so. Oh, weird. Okay. Yeah, I didn’t know that. Huh. So I was curious about, uh, you know, if we cut to the final table ex- experience, like, uh, during the final table, it seemed to me that you were pretty card dead and the situations mostly played themselves and you didn’t have much room to, uh, you know, get creative or do anything that unusual, but would you agree with that, how that played out, or my, my view of how that played out?
Rami Hammoud: So I have a lot to say on that, too. So let me just gather my thoughts here.
Zachary Elwood: Sure.
Rami Hammoud: Okay. Number one, yes, I agree with you. I was card dead, and my seat distribution was definitely the worst, okay? I was second in chips with, like, 80 million, I think, going into, into the final table, and Jumalon had, like, 2.5x that, which is over 200K, and he was to my di- to my direct left, okay?
So I had a really bad seat distribution, and the card distribution… By the way, my card distribution since day eight weren’t that great, okay? Like, I never had aces, kings, queens. I never had premium hands. I was really, like, I was accumulating chips on day eight on pure aggression, okay?
Zachary Elwood: Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: However, something that I didn’t f- prepare for is exactly that.
The fact that I was so aggressive, I didn’t consider that, and this will sound silly now, but I didn’t consider that my opponents would sort of prepare for that level of aggression. ‘Cause I looked back at the stream in preparation for this podcast as well, and even now I was really blown away by I really was not letting up any spots.
I was taking every single spot that I could. It was crazy. So looking back at it, knowing that how aggressive I was and that players obviously picked up on that and they were going to adjust for that, I probably should… There are some certain spots I probably should not, should not have taken. Like for example, there was a hand where I king seven suited against Mario Boose and I three bet him on the button.
I should probably just fold that pre-flop based on what I told you, right? Mm-hmm. If this was day eight where people didn’t know anything about me, take it, right? Mm. Another spot against, uh, uh, Han Fang where I three bet him with ace deuce off on a small blind, and he was- he had king jack suited on the, on the, on the button, and he four bet shoved against me.
Zachary Elwood: Mm.
Rami Hammoud: Like ju- just fold it based on what I said, just, just wait for premiums, right?
Zachary Elwood: Mm. Mm.
Rami Hammoud: And it’s funny because, uh, Han actually did an interview with, um, with GTO Wizard and Joey Ingram, and they discussed some hands, specifically the one ace deuce offsuit, and he said exactly that, right? He’s like, “You know, we did our, we did our homework, and we saw Rami was overaggressive, so you know, we’re gonna fight that, uh, with more aggression,” and rightfully so.
Mm. Right?
Zachary Elwood: Mm-hmm.
Rami Hammoud: So definitely I was card dead, but I think I forced the issue.
Zachary Elwood: Mm.
Rami Hammoud: Right? I think I forced the hands when I s- when I was supposed to have, so when I shouldn’t have, and so that’s, that’s, that’s a bit of regret, uh, a bit of a sting that, that I carry with me, but, but listen, it’s okay, right? But you- It happens.
Zachary Elwood: But I will say, you know, is it possible you’re being too hard on yourself? ‘Cause it’s like if it played out differently and they folded, you’d be like… Because arguably- For sure … people are playing much tighter in the, in those situations, you know, in that s- those spots- For sure … you know, trying to level up.
So it’s like- For sure … I could s- I could see it- Yeah … definitely going a different way and, you know, it’s a- it’s always unpredictable what people will do in those spots, so in a different, in a, in a different world- Your- … you might be like, “Oh, I had the right level of aggression.” Yeah. But yeah. But I see, but I see your point though, it’s, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Um- You’re 100% right. Um, I’m definitely being harsh on myself, which I tend to be. Um, and I’m probably being result oriented. Would we had, would we be having this conversation if they didn’t have like a, a four bet shoving hand? Probably not. But regardless, you know, I, I think the best way to improve is by assuming that you’ve done things wrong, and then, you know, taking accountability and improving that later on.
But, you know, I have poker friends, uh, uh, in my circle that are significantly better than me, and I’ve went over, you know, the final table multiple times and, and they told me that, you know, I played fine, right? Mm. Or I played with what I could have played, so yeah.
Zachary Elwood: I was curious what you thought of the interesting hand, near final hand, where after you had already, uh- Mm-hmm
departed where it was the- Yeah … it was heads up between Jim Malone and, and, um, how do you say his name? Sas, uh-
Rami Hammoud: Sascalati. Sascalati …
Zachary Elwood: Sascalati. Uh- Yeah … the hand where, uh, he, uh, Sas said something And then, uh, he was thinking on the river, and then Jumalon said, uh, “Put it in,” in kind of like a- Yeah … kind of a go- a goading, you know, daring way.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah.
Zachary Elwood: And, uh- Yeah … and Sos said, “Oh, I’m not gonna put it in, and then I’m not gonna shove. If I do anything- … I’m gonna call.” And, um, I mean, it stood out to me that that’s a very unlikely behavior from someone. You don’t see that kind of goading behavior from a bluffer, basically. It w- I thought it was a quite un- Oh
quite unlikely behavior to show up from a bluffer. And, um, I mean, I could see, see the cards, but, uh, I- that’s just a general view of mine. And, and, uh, Jumalon did have the nut flush, and Sos- Yep … ended up calling- That’s right … which many people were saying was like one of the worst- That’s right … calls they’ve seen- That’s right
in the whole World Series of Poker- That’s right … main event final table history. But I’m, I’m curious what- if you had any thoughts- Yeah … on that specific hand or how, or how the table played out after you left in general?
Rami Hammoud: Yeah, so I, I will comment on that hand. I think it’s an important exercise for everyone involved, especially those that are saying, like, worst call of all time.
I think it’s important to just take a step back and understand that it’s really hard to judge hands in isolation like that. Okay? People have to understand we’ve been playing for 10 days now in total. Okay? They have history, especially Jumalon and Sascolabi, they play together a lot. Okay? And from my understanding, this is only my opinion, it’s not confirmed, but what I gathered is that Sascolabi would rather make a bad call than get bluffed by Jumalon.
Like, that was the state of mind that he was operating in. So I think he was okay with taking the risk of making, like, a call that would look really foolish, as long as, you know, the reality in which he is right, he doesn’t have to deal with that by folding, right? So look, I agree with you. I, I don’t think Jumalon was bluffing- would’ve been bluffing in that sense.
I think he even agrees to that, right? I think he mentioned that publicly as well. I think
Zachary Elwood: he, I think he liked my, he liked my Instagram post that mentioned that, so I think he may- Yeah … he might, he might’ve agreed.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I think he did. I think he did, ’cause I think he pu- put out a post as well on Instagram saying that, you know, he would not have bluffed the river if the three didn’t come out, for example, right?
Um, but look, he knew his customer. However, and Sascolabi, for Sascolabi’s def- and Sascolabi’s defense, look, he got there by playing the way that he was playing. Okay? He was, in my opinion, and maybe you can agree to this, by far the most entertaining poker player on the final table. Dude, he had some crazy bluffs and, like, even on day eight, he was just wild.
So man, you gotta live by the sword and die by the sword, and I have nothing but respect for Sascolabi for not changing up his game, right? Just, just going with the sword, man, and, and good for him.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, and the thing I said on the, the Instagram, the social media post when I mentioned that hand, it- I was pointing out, like, even if Jumalon was unbalanced there, which I think he was with the behavior of, like, I don’t, I don’t think we’d often see him goading
I mean, I think we’d very rarely see him goading if he was bluffing there, like with that kind of- Yeah … statement of, uh, put it in. But the thing I pointed out, the nuance I think is, like, there’s still a reason he might do that if he thinks it might n- you know, if he has reason to believe that might actually make Sascolabi put it in, and like- Of course
sure enough, he did, so maybe he had, he had good reason to say that, right? So even though, you know, so it’s, it’s worth mentioning the nuance. Like you said, it’s really hard to judge things in a vacuum, ’cause when I’ve talked about, like, imbalances I’ve seen in, like, well-known players in terms of behavior, sometimes that, some of that stuff could be me- you know, they’re doing that on purpose and they have a reason to do it.
So even, even if it is, like, a common tell and a pattern you see, it’s like they sometimes have reasons for doing that that they could defend, right? So I just wanna, yeah, throw that nuance in there.
Rami Hammoud: 100%. He definitely had his reasons. Jumalon’s a dog, man. The guy’s a, he’s a fucking dog. Okay? And, and everything that he done is calculated, and man, like, the deserved champion won that final table, right?
Like, I’m, I’m so proud of him, man. He, he really killed it. I, I truly believe that performance- was the best performance by a file tape list, at least from the ones I’ve watched since 2016 I remember Ensan had a really, really good performance, but I truly believe Jumong’s performance, man, like that was top-notch.
He had some- he was well-prepared for every situation. Of course, it helps having the chip lead like the way that he did, but man, he barely made any mistakes. Uh, so kudos to him, man. No, it was- He, he played like a dog.
Zachary Elwood: I thought it was an impressive showing, yeah, ’cause I was like the, the, the clear strategy is to apply that pressure, but I kinda wondered if at some point if, like, maybe he was applying too much pressure at certain points, but it was like…
I- not that I had an, a common opinion, but it was just something I wondered, and I kinda wondered- Yeah … if even he was thinking like, “Am I playing it all a little bit too strong?” But, like, it, it, it definitely paid off and, um- It did. It did … yeah, they, they, he clearly were- he, he was- they were putting a lot of preparation into that, that strategy clearly.
Yeah. Yeah. Uh-
Rami Hammoud: What a hand. What a hand.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah. Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: It’s a crazy hand.
Zachary Elwood: So let’s, let’s talk about poker tells in general. I’m curious how-
Rami Hammoud: Sure …
Zachary Elwood: your views of poker tells have changed over time, if, if they have, and how, how- Yeah … have you, uh, approached learning about them or how, how, how is, how is that, uh, evolution of using them and thinking about them played out for you?
I know it’s a big question.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah, yeah, no, it’s, it’s a good question. Uh, and I think in order for me to answer that, let me explain how I actually got exposed to your work. Okay, I think this would be really relevant, right? So it was in 2024 and I had just blundered a huge spot in a WSOP tournament, okay? It was 12 players left, uh, I was third in chips, and the field was really soft.
600,000 up top. And, uh, yeah, I fucked it up, man. It was a huge mistake, I think nerves were in play. I had never final tabled any WSOP event at the time. It was my dream, right? My friends were showing up, were throwing a watch party. I was, I was nervous and, you know, I wasn’t thinking straight. In that hand that I lost, I remember sensing that my opponent was really comfortable in his ways, uh, in playing, and I didn’t- I wasn’t able to put my finger on it because I didn’t have sort of the knowledge, right, uh, on live tells.
So right after I lost, I actually end up googling, okay, like, best resources on live tell, and your name and specifically, uh, Reading Poker Tells came up a lot. So I ended up buying it, consumed it in, like, three days, and I’m not exaggerating when I tell you this, I bought the book on June 21st. On June 28th, I had my first final table in the WSOP.
Um, it was a Salute to Warriors event, and I don’t know if I told you this in the past, in private, but I truly credit you and your work for that run that I had. Mm. Because, like, it really opened the door for a lot of things that, like, you kinda sense, you feel, and that’s the thing about your book that’s so good.
It’s that 95% of the content was something I was able to relate to as a player myself ’cause I have 20 years of experience. So I’m like, “Man, I know exactly what he’s talking about. Man, I do that,” you know? So fir- my first step was, okay, remove all these leaks, and the second step was, like, okay- Let’s explore all these different theories that you laid on, uh, in the book, right?
Zachary Elwood: Mm. Mm-hmm.
Rami Hammoud: And so yeah, that … When I, when I started going into that, then I think I ended up buying your, um, your course as well- Her book … which was really good. Or no, the video,
Zachary Elwood: the video, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: The video as well, yeah, the video, which was great because you could see, like, live examples, which I really appreciated.
And then, yeah, just start putting more time. And, you know, prior to your book, I- I’d be one of those that’s always on my phone, you know, just waiting for my turn, not really paying attention. And then after your book, I just … It’s just so damn important to be attentive at all times, because there is an abundance of data and information that’s being leaked at all times, and I think that’s one of- that’s actually one of the biggest changes that, that brought to my game, is like just being attentive.
So that’s how, that’s how I got into this whole live, live world. You were… Obviously, it was your work that sort of brought me in.
Zachary Elwood: No, that’s awesome. Yeah, thanks for sharing that. And like we talked about, I know that there can be reasons to, like, not wanna talk about that stuff as a serious poker player.
Yeah. Like, I’ve, I’ve talked to plenty of people who are like, “I love your stuff, but I don’t wanna give you any public mentions or reviews of any of your stuff, ’cause I don’t wanna draw attention to it.” So, uh, I appreciate it, uh,
Rami Hammoud: for sure. And I’m, I’m like that too, by the way. Selfishly, I don’t really tell people about your work.
Yeah,
Zachary Elwood: well,
Rami Hammoud: you know, not many- It has its own value and pull back.
Zachary Elwood: If it makes you feel better, not many poker players, I think, listen to this podcast, so.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. Great. Amazing. Yeah. Don’t … Buy something else, guys. Buy another book. Buy a fiction book.
Zachary Elwood: Buy Joe Navarro’s book on poker tells. It’s a good one.
Rami Hammoud: There you go.
There you go. There you go.
Zachary Elwood: All right. Uh, I did wanna… Yeah, so I wanted to ask you- And
Rami Hammoud: my, my Kara’s book. I think my Kara’s still relevant today, right?
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it is. There you go. I, I do, like … Yeah. Kara’s book was great. No, no, no sar- Yeah … no sarcasm, uh, intended on that one.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah, yeah.
Zachary Elwood: So, uh, I did wanna ask you, yeah, do you wanna talk about any specific hands from the World Series of Poker experience where- Tells played a role or-
Rami Hammoud: For sure, for sure
Zachary Elwood: can you real- any hands that come to mind really, if you wanna talk about anything like that?
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. So I can give you two hands that worked in my favor and one hand that didn’t work in my favor, right? And then we can go into, like, the risks- The nuance … of live tells. I think that- Yeah … I think that’s really interesting as well, right?
The hand that was benefit to me was actually in that Solta Warriors tournament, right? So remember, I just read your book, so I’m, like, eager to, like, try everything and, like you know, obviously over- Splash around … but, you know. Yeah. Splash around, dude. Splash
around.
Zachary Elwood: Expe- well, it’s a g- it’s good to experiment ’cause, you know, it’s like- Of course
see where the, see where the limits are of, of stuff, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: 100%. Yeah. 100%. Um, so it’s day two of this tournament, and under-the-gun raises into the big blind, who at the time was the chip leader. Okay, so under-the-gun raises, the big blind was on chip leader, and the two had been quite chatty. And as other players are deciding their move and folding, the under-the-gun raiser tells the big blind in, like, a lower voice, he’s like, “Like, you know, if I’m raising into you, I must have something.”
And two things. Number one, prior to me reading your book, I would’ve probably agreed with him. Like, yeah, you must have something, you know? And just, like, nothing too much of it. Um, and second of all, I think this also goes to the importance of paying attention, right? Because I think in any other instance prior to, prior to your book, I probably wouldn’t have caught that.
But then I started thinking, I’m like, okay, you know, would he have- would he really be saying this if he had aces or kings, right? Generally, like you so say it in your, uh, w- like you say it in your book yourself, it’s like players wanna conceal when they find treasure, right? And you gave the, the, the scene from Blood Diamond, right, where we mentioned that, like, oh, okay, the, the, the guy found a diamond and then he looked away quickly, you know, because he didn’t want to, like, expose the fact that he just find- uh, he just found the treasure.
And it’s like it works similarly with poker players. So it seems like he was trying to increase the strength of his perceived range, right, by doing so. It’s like telling the big blind, like, hey, like I’m raising here, you know? Uh, like I would never raise into the big blind unless I had a hand, right? If he had aces or kings, I don’t think he would’ve said
Zachary Elwood: that, right?
And, and, and aces or kings people are just more stoic in general. They’re, like, more thoughtful and quiet. They like- they don’t like to draw attention to themselves. Yeah, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Exactly.
Zachary Elwood: Exactly. As a general, as a general rule, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: And so it folds around to me on the small blind and I’m like, you know what, man, I don’t even wanna look at my cards.
I’m gonna do this for science, okay? ‘Cause if I look at my cards and I see trash hand, I won’t do it, right? So I end up three-betting him, and big blind folds, and the other gun ended up tank folding. He didn’t show his cards. Um, I had 10-5 off-suit, but I think that was my first realization, like holy moly, if I can remove a player’s top of range, I really have carte blanche to do whatever the hell I want with regardless what cards I have, right?
Now, of course, I’ve went a bit too crazy on this and gotten burnt, so I just wanna put that out there to our listeners. Right. You know, be careful, play responsibly. Um, but it is helpful once you sort of, I guess, like, uh, find, find that balance, find that right balance, right?
Zachary Elwood: Yeah. No, and, and it’s interesting, um, uh, it’s interesting you picked out a, an early hand tell because I actually think, uh, a lot of people focus on the big bet tells of, like, bluffing or value-betting- Yeah
but I actually think there’s a lot more value in the early hand tells of, like, these small little clues that help you lean towards more aggressive, you know, raises- For sure … uh, pre-flop or, or on the flop call- you know, betting, deciding to continue to bet based on some small things because I actually think- Yeah
those are, those are actually spots Because people are less aware of their behavior. You know, when people are making the big bets, they’re much more cognizant and trying to be as stoic as possible and such. But there’s a lot of little clues, like the one you just mentioned, where, you know, even if we’re talking a numbers game, where, like, obviously that guy could have aces or kings sometimes, but poker is, is- Yeah
a numbers game, and, like, by and large- Yeah … if you know some of the- how these patterns play out, you’re gonna put yourself, time and time again, in these early hand positions- Absolutely … into better s- situations, and those, th- those are much more common than the big bet tell spots. So it’s, it’s cool that you picked an early hand kind of situation like that, ’cause I think those are super powerful, yeah, and under-examined.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. And look, to be honest, had, had he not said anything, I probably would’ve just folded my hand. I mean, I… No, not probably, I would definitely fold my hand. But just because of that, I was able to push… And, and on your, on your topic of, like, look, it’s all about, you even mentioned this in the book, it’s, it’s correlation, but it’s not 100% correlation right?
There are going to be times where a gentleman will say that and have ace and kings.
Zachary Elwood: Right.
Rami Hammoud: But more often than not, it’s probably not the case. Right. Right? I think it’s also important to understand that.
Zachary Elwood: You know, there, there’s so many little examples like that, especially with the, the verbal stuff, like people in general, uh, pre-flop or on the flop seeming less focused, like, just having more movements and, like, checking their cards more, like, playing with their chips in kind of an aggressive fashion or, like- Yeah
calling with a, a splashy gesture. It’s like a lot of these things- Mm-hmm. That’s it … just kind of weaken the range, because if they had a top of- more top of range thing, they’d be behaving in more stoic, thoughtful, mentally focused ways. So a lot of these things can just really-
Rami Hammoud: 100% …
Zachary Elwood: help you focus in and make-
Rami Hammoud: Yeah
Zachary Elwood: better decisions. And yeah, and like you said, it’s a, it’s a numbers game. ‘Cause often when I, you know, when I w- talking about any exploitative kind of, uh, probabilistic thing, you know, sometimes people will be like, “No, I do that all the time when I have the nuts.” It’s like, well, sure, you may- Yeah, yeah … but we’re talking about- Yeah
you know, we’re not, we’re not- Of course … we’re not claiming… You know, the claim isn’t that everybody does this every single time. But it’s really hard- Of course … to talk about probabilistic things, though, which is, you know, uh, which we, we can get into the, the downsides and the risks of using these things, because I think- For
Rami Hammoud: sure.
Zachary Elwood: I mean, I, uh, I’ll, I’ll just throw something out there. I think one, one thing that makes people really not wanna use tells is the probabilistic aspect of them. Like, you will-
Rami Hammoud: Mm-hmm …
Zachary Elwood: often be, you know, fairly often be wrong with the reads. Um, and, and, you know, when you use them, that- that’s part of the art is, like, knowing, like, well, in certain spots I’m not gonna act on this unless I’m quite sure based on X, Y, Z factors, whereas other spots- Yeah
might be more variable. You might be okay with more risk, and that’s a whole art based on experience in itself. But the, the one thing I think is true is I think a lot of people- Are really afraid of looking stupid by using this softer set of skills. And I think that applies to a lot of really experienced players too, because it is a softer, more ambiguous set of information, you know, basis of information.
Yeah. And it feels much more uncomfortable to base decisions on something that seems so squishy and amorphous. But I think it’s funny too, because experienced poker players are always ba- are, are commonly basing decisions on these probabilistic things in the exploitative, uh- Exactly … fundamental strategy realm.
It’s like, if you know somebody’s- Exactly. That’s how I was thinking. That’s right … if you know somebody’s raising a lot pre-flop, you’re gonna adjust to that with your play, and you’ll o- and you’ll sometimes be wrong there too, so it’s the same idea. Exactly. 100%. But to do it with poker, uh, beha- to do it with behavior- Yeah
does seem, and I, I acknowledge, it does seem much more sketchy, because it’s, like, a much more ambiguous and hard-to-define area. It’s like getting a handle on what those factors are is much more squishy, and you’re more liable to beat yourself up because it is a more squishy area. You’re like, “Why did I base a decision on that squishy information,” right?
It, uh, so just, just to say, it can seem a much more, uh, anxiety-producing thing to base decisions on, even for people that are used to adjusting their strategy based on probabilistic things anyway. So I, that, I think that’s kind of an interesting thing. I’m curious if you have thoughts on that.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah, I totally agree.
Um, and it’s funny because this idea of looking stupid can also apply if you’re playing, like, 100% detailed strategy. Like, let’s say the solver tells you, like, “Hey, you need to 3X over bet pot on the river with fucking air,” right? And the guy snap calls you with quads, right? You’re like, “Okay, that was dumb.”
Right? So you might feel stupid, right?
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: I think at the end of the day, man, it all needs to fall under the same bracket in that you have to be okay looking stupid. You have to embrace looking stupid, right? Because avoiding plays that you believe are the right plays because you don’t wanna look foolish is an easy way to lose money, right?
Zachary Elwood: Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: I mean, I think Adrian Mateos said it best. I, I have a quote from him because I, I love, I, I love him a lot and I love the way he thinks, and he said exactly what I just said. You have to embrace making mistakes. Don’t be afraid of making mistakes, because that will lead to bigger mistakes. If you try to avoid mistakes, you’ll play worse.
So this applies in the GTO example and also applies in the live tells. Look, if you have reason to believe that the tell that you have is going to dictate a certain action of yours, then do it, right? Right. Like, you can rationalize it to anyone else after. You can rationalize it to yourself as well. But you have to be comfortable with the idea that you’re gonna be wrong.
You ca- It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s an imperfect game, right? It’s all, like you said, it’s probabilistic, right? Yeah, it’s all probabilistic. You’re gonna win X amount of time. Yeah,
Zachary Elwood: exactly. It’s incomplete information. Exactly. It’s hidden information. You’re gonna be wrong. Yeah, that is- Totally … it is an interesting thing about how uncomfortable people are with that whole idea.
And I think, you know, Doug Polk, for example, he used to say something like… He said exactly that. He said something like, “I don’t wanna base a decision on some tell and then look, you know, feel like- Yeah … and then lose to some garbage player based on…” But I think he’s come around over the years because- Yeah
I do see him more often talking about behavior, and I think that maybe that’s based on him playing more- Interesting … at the lodge and, and, and playing more on the streams- Right … and such. Just a quick note that one of the most popular online articles that I’ve written about poker tells is one that I wrote for Doug Polk’s Upswing Poker Training website.
If you’re curious, you can find that by searching for Seven Poker Tells You Should Look For. I also wrote an article for Upswing mentioning Doug Polk’s criticism of using tells. That article is titled Does Studying Poker Tells Make You a Worse Overall Player? And it was pretty cool that Doug was up for publishing an article that was critical of what Doug said on that topic.
And again, I do think that Doug’s thinking has evolved on that
Rami Hammoud: topic over the years. Okay, back to the talk.
Zachary Elwood: I, I do think- All right … I, I do understand that impulse because it does seem, especially if you’re used to, like, studying, uh, you know, the, the, the GTO kind of approaches and- Right … you know, especially if you’re, like, referencing solvers, which, you know, have a, have a, uh, discrete, you know, concrete output.
It’s like-
Rami Hammoud: Yep …
Zachary Elwood: yeah, trying to delve into the soft, squishy area of behavior can seem very, a p- a, a, a very rough, uh, and scary source of information. But I do think, you know, to, to your point about it, you feeling like it set you on a course or one of, w- was one of the factors for, for setting you up for, uh, more success- Mm-hmm
it does seem to me, based on the conversations that I ha- I’ve had with high-stakes players too, including one I’m still consulting for now over the past year, it does seem to me- Wow … like, for people that delve into that and really take it seriously, it does seem to be, like, a big differentiating factor to me from, from what I know.
Rami Hammoud: Huge, huge. At least, at least for my game. But, you know, again, there, there are risks, right? Um, at least for me, the risks are is that it gives me an extra reason to rationalize a bad call, okay?I, um, like most poker players, but especially me, I hate folding. I like to call. So sometimes I might find myself thinking, “He blinked three times in four seconds, I’m calling him.”
Right? When in reality, like, it’s all tell, but I use that tell to rationalize, uh, my really shitty call, right? Uh, so that’s number one. Number two, you also get exposed to fake tells. This happened to me in a WSOP event in 2025. We were on the river, I have two pairs, um, and I was- uh, my, my opponent was all in, and there was a straight possible on the board.
And I was, like, 50/50. And then, you know, as you always advise, like, take your time, you know, make sure you get all the information. And so I was looking at him, and I noticed that he was taking, like, big gulps. Now, looking back at it, they were definitely exaggerated, high freaking gulps that nobody takes.
But at the time, it’s the first time I see this, and I’m like, “Oh my God, like, he’s gulping. Okay, he must be really, really nervous.” You know, paying attention, the gulps were more frequent. I’m like, damn, I was so close to folding, but that really switched it to me calling. And of course he had the nuts, and I went to see him after, I’m like, “Dude, like, you were gulping so much.”
He’s like, “Finally. I finally got someone with this.” He said, “I’ve been doing this for, like, many years,” and he’s like, “I knew someday it would come- that someone would fall for it, and it would be worth it.” So good for him. If you’re listening to this, I’m proud of you. Um, so yeah. Uh-
Zachary Elwood: No, that’s- that- that’s an interesting one too, ’cause that gets into the subject of, like…
I w- I was actually just writing something on my site about this, of the nuance of, like, what people call false/reverse tells, because to me, I would, I would classify that as, like, the tell, because it’s like- … the more common thing to see the gulping- Yeah … from the- Sure. … the, the strong-hand players. But y- you know, but he, in his mind, or, or it will sometimes to some people, d- depending on their perspective, be a false tell- Yeah
because he is exhibiting- Yeah … the sign of anxiety, right? So there, there’s a lot of nu- Exactly. It’s hard, it’s hard to even talk about tell- … you know, tells in poker behavior because it’s so subjective depending on your perspective. But yeah, to the risks, though, I will say, I mean, I- Yeah … this stuff is not easy.
Like, I, I… You know, I like to emphasize, you might, you know, in a typical eight-hour session, I, I might only ba- change a decision a couple times, you know, in a, in a, in an average session. You might change it more. I won’t ask you that. Yeah. But I… It, it is quite difficult, like with this work I’ve been doing with this high-stakes player who plays in We watch a lot of footage and it’s, these are serious players we’re, we’re studying and it’s like, it’s not often we, uh, see too much.
It’s like a lot- Yeah … because these are, these are serious players trying their best to be balanced and stoic. For sure. So the, the better the player is, the harder that kind of stuff is gonna be. So I think it is worth pointing out that like, A, it’s hard to do, especially-
Rami Hammoud: Yeah …
Zachary Elwood: the, the, the more serious the player.
B, the stuff, you know, not surprisingly will be most often used against more recreational players who are not as aware of their behavioral leaks. Of course. And then C, the risk- Of course … of like, yeah, you, you might, uh, es- especially in the short term, might make a lot of mistakes in how you apply these things, ’cause I do think there’s an art of figuring out like where to apply them and when to just, you know, not think about that stuff at all or say, “I don’t have enough information.”
Uh, so yeah, the, the caveats are important, um-
Rami Hammoud: At least for me, like my… I, I feel like, you know, ’cause I don’t play that high of buy-ins, right? Generally it’s like between the 500 to the 5,000, and the 10,000 usually is like just the main event. So in that bracket of buy-ins, you tend to see players that are not that- Well thought out when it comes to life tells and, and balancing those life tells.
So- Mm … you know, I think there’s a lot of value for me. But I imagine there’s still a lot of value for, for the high stakes players as well, like, like your, your client that you’re working for. Um, I’m sure you’re still finding something, although it’s not gonna be as easy, of course.
Zachary Elwood: Right. Yeah. I, I was trying to do my part to, like, dissuade people from studying poker tells.
I was trying to balance out- … the, um, you know, for
Rami Hammoud: You know it. There you go. There you go.
Zachary Elwood: Um, yeah. That’s amazing. It, it, they suck. Don’t- Don’t … But, yeah, just don’t look into it. It’s not worth it. Um. No.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah, forget about it. Yeah. Waste of time. Yeah.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, I’m gonna use that clip. Um- That, that’s how I’ll start the episode.
It’ll be
Rami Hammoud: Amazing.
Zachary Elwood: That’s awesome. Just, just to, just to get people to stop watching at the beginning.
Rami Hammoud: There you go.
Zachary Elwood: All right.
Rami Hammoud: That’s so good. Um-
Zachary Elwood: Just doing the poker community a favor, basically. Um-
Rami Hammoud: Absolutely.
Zachary Elwood: So- And
Rami Hammoud: doing me a favor too.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, exactly. I’m trying to, I’m trying to think about- Of course … your feelings in this too.
I-
Rami Hammoud: Oh, I appreciate you, man. I appreciate you.
Zachary Elwood: All right. So, um … Oh, so one other interesting thing there is- Yeah … it stood out to me when I was watching your, your footage le- uh, especially the footage leading up to the final table.
Rami Hammoud: Mm-hmm.
Zachary Elwood: Uh, one thing I do think is a nice thing about, another side nice thing about studying tells and acting on behaviors is that it makes your decisions really hard to understand for people that don’t know the factors for what you’re basing your decisions on.
Um- Yeah … and I saw some of those things that I think were true in some of your pre-final table. I could be wrong, but I thought it was possible that you were basing some of your, like, you know, pre-flop three bets or some of your follow-throughs, uh, after the flop- … uh, bluffing. I thought it was possible you’re basing some of your decisions on some of these small behaviors that we, that we referenced.
And, and I’ll say too, when I’ve, when I’ve played with, uh … I mean, I, I’ve rarely talked strategy with people I’ve played frequently, frequently with, but one time I remember-
Rami Hammoud: Yeah …
Zachary Elwood: uh, playing a 5/10 game regularly in Portland, and I had, like, three or four bet somebody pre-flop and I, and I had, uh, showed a serious poker-playing friend the hand, and he was like, “Why would you, you know why would you do that?”
Rami Hammoud: Right.
Zachary Elwood: And, uh, but it- Yeah … it, it cemented to me, like, that’s a, that’s a major, um … Yeah, and it, and to be clear, I was basing that decision on a, on these small pre-flop kinda indicators of weakness and non-alertness- Yeah, yeah. Figured … and stuff. Non-focus. Um- Yeah … but it does seem to me like a, a benefit is, like, people would be like, “This guy is a maniac.
Like, I don’t know what he’s, what he’s doing at all.” You know? And that’s a, that’s kind of an added- Yeah … side effect because I think people assume that you’re crazier than you are. If it … But I’m curious if you wanna talk about that.
Rami Hammoud: So I’d love to sit here … Well, I’d love to stand here right now and tell you that yes, I had, like, all these live leaks and live tells on so many players- It was a lot more based on the VAD stack.
It was actually, I was sensing such a huge amount of fear from everyone that was there. And look, it’s, it’s a big spot, but like I said at the beginning of the call, I I was … For me, it was like the end of the tournament, I didn’t care. I was ready. I was ready. I was ready. You’re ready to apply the pressure, yeah.
You know, I was gonna go home with $20,000. Yeah, yeah. So, like, for me, all the aggression that you saw wasn’t based on life tells, it was based on the fear that I was sensing from the players. Right. And even players that- Just their playing style
Zachary Elwood: overall, yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Right, and even players I never thought that I would, I would find fear in.
I’m not gonna name names, but, like, I was, I was surprised, like oh my God, like you know? This is interesting that I, I can sense it, too, right?
Zachary Elwood: Right.
Rami Hammoud: Um, so yeah, it wasn’t, it wasn’t life tell based. Um, it was, it was mostly like, uh, I’m just gonna take advantage of the situation. It seems like everyone really, really wants to make the final table and, you know, I’m
I was okay with not making it, right?
Zachary Elwood: Yeah. No, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. And, and to be clear, I didn’t … I, I definitely was not confident in that read. It was more, like, a couple spots where I thought it could’ve been true, but I get your point. It’s like, yeah, you’re mostly- Yeah … uh, you’re basing on the, on the, on the general sense of, uh, how people are playing and the, and the fear.
But yeah, to, to your point though, I was- I won’t name names either, but I did get a sense, uh, it gets- I think it gets to that fact of, like, even if you’re a very strong player and you know what you should do, it can be very hard to implement that when there’s a lot of money on the line, there’s a lot of, like, incentives to sticking- Oh
around longer- Totally … in those tournament spots. It’s like, because I- I- I- Of course … I do, I do think it, it often happens where it’s like, hey, I, I know I should be probably, uh, applying more- being in more plots, applying more pressure, whatever it is, but, like, implementing that when the pressure’s on in a, in a once in a lifetime spot is a whole different, uh, situation, and then that can be, kind of make you freeze up and, and such, yeah.
Uh-
Rami Hammoud: For sure. It’s such a, it’s such a unique situation, man, and I don’t blame anyone for being scared, you know? I should, I should also been scared, to be honest with you , right? That, and by the way, like, my style of play, I’m sure some people would review it and be like, “Rami, I think you went a bit too aggressive,” right
And so- But that’s
Zachary Elwood: how you got there too, though.
Rami Hammoud: That’s how I got there, right? So live by the sword, die by the sword, right? Yeah. So maybe in this timeline it worked out for me, but maybe in other timelines, like, it wouldn’t have worked out for me, right? So- It’s hard to judge these things … you know, I don’t mean to be result-oriented either.
It’s- Yeah … it’s really hard. It’s really- It- … difficult. Um, but-
Zachary Elwood: Yeah,
Rami Hammoud: it’s really hard to judge- Yeah, it’s not like I look like a genius now, you know? It’s like, but
Zachary Elwood: yeah,
Rami Hammoud: I mean-
Zachary Elwood: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The-
Rami Hammoud: It’s probabilistic, like you said, right?
Zachary Elwood: I mean, yeah, it, to your point, it, it is really hard to judge these things- Yeah
I mean, because if a g- if a serious player who’s got some skills is … You know, you can often find a lot of different factors for why people are doing the things they do, and a lot of those things- Yeah … can be defensible. There’s, like, a range of things that can be defensible depending on what they’re, you know, focused on or, you know.
So po- I mean, poker’s- For sure … a complex game, as we, as we know. Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: So complex and so beautiful.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah, absolutely.
Zachary Elwood: No,
Rami Hammoud: that’s- Absolutely. Yeah.
Zachary Elwood: I mean, like, yeah, like you, I was into poker at a young age. Like, um, I used to play at my friend’s house. His parents would have poker games, and that’s how I, I got into it.
And, uh, then I was setting up poker games in college and stuff and, uh- That’s funny … taking my friend’s, friend’s money and, uh, taking notes on, like- Nice. … behavior or, or betting patterns that they had, you know? That’s
Rami Hammoud: so funny.
Zachary Elwood: Um- Is
Rami Hammoud: that what you studied in, by the way? Did you study in, like, some, some sort of behavioral science or…?
Zachary Elwood: No, no, that’s all just amateur. I went to school for, uh- Oh, interesting … journalism and then, uh, video and film- Gotcha … and I switched schools. But yeah, no, it’s- Oh, interesting … the, the, the psychology stuff was … But I was always interested early on in the, in the details aspect ’cause I read, you know- Got it
Mike Caro’s stuff and then I was searching.
Rami Hammoud: Right.
Zachary Elwood: I read some other really, like, niche books that were not very good, but about behavior and, uh, got really interested in that part of it. Uh, but yeah- Right … to, I was g- the reason I mention it is, like, when you talked about the, the beauty of poker, it, it is- The complexity of it and the fact that it involves the math, the game theory, the, the psychology, uh, the behavior stuff, it, it, it does make it a beautiful game- Mm-hmm
in, in my view. Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: So beautiful. Yeah. So beautiful, man. I love it so much.
Zachary Elwood: Um, I- okay, do, do we, do you wanna talk about anything else we haven’t touched on? Do you wanna talk about anything-
Rami Hammoud: Yeah,
Zachary Elwood: I- … you wanna promote, anything like that?
Rami Hammoud: I’m gonna, I’m gonna sit back down. I still have a lot of things to talk about, man, if you want to.
I don’t know how much time you have, but it’s really up to you. If you don’t have time, then I’m happy to end it as well.
Zachary Elwood: Oh, no, no, if you wanna keep going, I’m, I’m fine. I got nowhere to be, so it’s really up to you.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. Um, yeah. Um, I’d like to go over, since, you know, this is a lifestyle thing, I’d like to cover a bit more, uh, lifestyle hands.
Um, so I think we mentioned that there’s gonna be two that were beneficial for me. I explained, I already gave one away, so I can give another one. There was a hand in day eight of the WSOP Main Event where I had jack-deuce off-suit on the button, and it was the last hand before the break. And I think most poker players know that usually on the last hand before the break, players tend to be a bit tighter because they’re just anxious to go, uh, to go on their break.
On top of that, I had Greg Muler who was on the small blind, who was, was a bit on the tighter side, and I had Dan Savvas, okay, who was on the big blind, okay And Dan Savvas, I’ve played a lot with him, so I had, like, a lot of good timing and betting tells, uh, on him, okay? So I end up raising trying to steal the blind.
Uh, Muler folds and Savvas calls on the big blind. I have jack-deuce off, flop is seven-six-deuce, so I flop bottom pair, not a great hand. He checks, which is important because he generally likes to donk when he makes re- when he makes strong hands, okay? I end up C betting because I wanna protect my hand, and he calls, which is also really relevant because he generally will quickly min-check raise if he, if he, if he gets any hand here, okay?
The turn’s a seven, right? So seven-seven, six-deuce. I have jack-deuce. He checks. Again, very relevant because I would expect him to donk, okay? So I end up betting. And after tanking for like a few seconds, he ends up min-raising me, okay? So check min-raise. Um, and again, for the reasons I mentioned pre- pr- prior to this, I’m like, you know what?
I am still pretty sure that I’ve, that I have the best hand here. If he had a really good hand, he would’ve dunked on the flop, he would check-raise me on the flop, and he would dunk the turn. So because of all this, I’m fairly… I’m very confident in my hand, by the way. Like, I am, I’m hoping he goes bananas on the river.
That’s how confident I was. Yeah,
Zachary Elwood: pretty, a pretty quick min-raise. Yeah, okay. Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. So I call, and river was a king, and after a few seconds he goes all in. Now, I was going to call, okay? I don’t think the king changed him or anything, unless he had like king high or unless I was wrong on my read, of course, right?
You always have to open the possibility that you’re wrong on your read. But of course, I’m not gonna snap call with, with bottom pair here, so I’m, I’m gonna take my time. And as I’m taking my time, I look at him, and he looks at me, and he gives me this big genuine smile. He puts on his hoodie, he squeezes it, and then he leans back on…
he leans back on his chair.
Zachary Elwood: Oh, jeez.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. And I look at this, I’m like, okay. I think I need to sort of rework the hand and, you know, acknowledge I could be wrong here, right? Because this man is very comfortable. Remember, there’s like 17 players left,
Zachary Elwood: right? Yeah, no, that’s-
Rami Hammoud: So- That would
Zachary Elwood: change it all. Yeah, right there
Rami Hammoud: Yeah.
So I ended up folding, and, uh, he had king queen. So I was really proud of that because, you know, I was right on the flop, I was right on the turn. It was, it was like almost a perfect hand all the way to the river, right? Wow, no. Um, so my wish- But that, that,
Zachary Elwood: that’s a good one. Yeah, that’s a good one
Rami Hammoud: I wish a 10 came out, man, because that would’ve been the call of the tournament.
Oh, I
Zachary Elwood: know, that you would’ve, you would’ve been the, the, the belle of the ball- Yeah … for that, for that one. Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: I know. That would’ve been
Zachary Elwood: great. It
Rami Hammoud: would’ve been so good. It would’ve been so good.
Zachary Elwood: Oh,
Rami Hammoud: man. But, uh, yeah, so that’s another example where, like, that really benefited me, because I, I think I may have called if I didn’t have that information.
Zachary Elwood: Yeah.
Rami Hammoud: Right? So- No,
Zachary Elwood: it sounds like you were perfectly set up to, to make that call.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah. Yeah. No, that’s- Oh, 100%. That, that would’ve
Zachary Elwood: been great. Yeah. Huh.
Rami Hammoud: 100%.
Zachary Elwood: A note here. I decided to edit out a story that Rami told about the main event final table involving a hand where he made a faulty read where he thought a pre-flop behavior from an opponent, Greg Mueller, was likely indicating a weak hand.
And so Rami decided three bet, but then Greg Mueller re-raised, and Rami re-thought the situation and decided it was quite unlikely that his opponent was re-raising with a weak hand in that spot, and decided to fold. I decided to remove this as I thought it might be a bit hard to follow for most listeners, because it involved some of Rami’s personal history with his opponent in that event, and also because Rami’s decisions in that hand actually went against my own take on the behavior and the situation he described.
And so all that nuance was a bit hard to capture, and to do it right and get across my views on it would require me adding a lot of explanatory notes and such to clear up any confusion, especially for a lay audience. So honestly, it was just too much work, uh, for not much payoff. But by and large, the most important point that Rami was making with that story was that using poker tells will always involve risk, and sometimes you’ll make some bad reads, and you need
Rami Hammoud: to be prepared for that.
Okay, back to the talk.
Zachary Elwood: Thanks for sharing those stories. I think, uh- Of course … that’s, that’s really cool to hear the i- inside scoop on some of those things. Um- Yeah, for sure … do you wanna, do you wanna share anything else or, uh, uh, whether hand related or, or anything you wanna share about anything you’re working on now?
Rami Hammoud: Of course, of course. I may have a, some plugs if I can put out there. I don’t know how that works. It’s my first time, but, like, I do wanna advertise some people that helped me on this journey and- Oh, yeah … you know, if they can, this can get them, like, an extra client or two- No, go ahead … I think this will be really beneficial.
So yeah, I want to give a shout-out, first of all, to my theoretical poker coach. Um, his name is Adam Mahdi Said. Uh, he’s been my coach for as long as I can remember. Um, so if you also want to make the final table of the WSOP Main Event, make sure that you visit his website, which is www.gitandsos.com. So it’s G-I-T-A-N-D-S-O-S.com.
It’s a complicated name, but it’s a play on sit and go, so you just reverse the S and the G, Git And Sos. Okay. Git And Sos. Okay, gotcha. So that’s the first person I’d like to shout out, shout out. The second person, and this is the part that we didn’t talk about as much, but it’s like… Maybe if you want, we can touch on it, but it’s the, the three weeks about how…
Let’s talk about it. I think it’s interesting. Remember how I said, like, everything up until day eight, I was, like, super disconnected, you know? It seems like I, I wasn’t, you know, I, I don’t really understand what I was playing for. That all came crashing down the moment day eight came to an end, right? I think I remember telling you that I was being pulled left and right for interviews.
People telling me like, “Oh, you’re a millionaire now.” Like, “How are you gonna prepare for the main?” I’m like, “Oh my God,” like, “I’m a millionaire. Holy shit.” And I remember being on the plane, and I was just receiving, like, a plethora of message, thousands and thousands of messages from people that I knew, people that I barely knew, people I haven’t spoken to in years.
And God bless their souls, like, none of them had malicious intent, but some of their messages was something along the lines of, “I know you’re gonna win. I have no doubt.” You know, things like that, which I understand why they would say that, but when you tell that to someone like me, it’s like, okay, so wait, so if I don’t win, like, you’re gonna be upset?
You’re gonna lose support, right? So all of a sudden, the environment around me was changing, right? I was still the same person, but the environment around me was changing, and it was constantly reminding me what I was playing for and how crazy this was. And so all of a sudden, I was sort of shouldering this huge weight-
Zachary Elwood: Mm
Rami Hammoud: the weight of the world on my shoulders. And I remember when I landed back in Montreal- I had this thought, and I’m like, “I don’t wanna play the final table anymore. I just don’t wanna play,” right? And so that was probably my lowest point, and when you get that thought, I think it’s time that you get help, right?
So I reached out to my, uh, who will become my poker mental coach. His name is Francois Hamel. Uh, so yeah, he guided me during the highs and the many lows during those three weeks, and really, I think the mantra became just embrace all experiences, right? Mm. So even the negative ones, don’t hide away from it.
Lean into it. Document it, because like it’s all gonna be over soon, and you’re gonna be wanna be able to sort of get back to that, right? And so for me, it’s like okay, it’s fine to be scared. There’s nothing wrong with that, but live it. Don’t ignore it. Don’t… Like, when I start getting these thoughts, don’t just go on my phone and start going on TikTok so I can like distract myself.
Like no, no, just embrace it, you know? Mm-hmm. Uh, think about it, process it. So yeah, he, he’s another person I’d love to shout out, uh, Francois Hamel. He was really, really good for me, and so yeah, if you’re a poker player that’s struggling with any kind of pressure or issues with confidence, definitely, definitely recommend him.
Zachary Elwood: That’s just a good life strategy too. I mean, a good life outlook in general is trying to embrace- 100% … that view of things. Yeah. A quick note here, the coach Rami mentioned here is named Francois Hamel. That’s H-A-M-E-L. His website is at francoishamelconsulting.com. Back to the talk.
Rami Hammoud: Yeah.
Zachary Elwood: Anybody else you
Rami Hammoud: wanna shout out?
And, uh, I… Yeah, I have one last shout-out. Um, so I’d love to shout out the man, the legend himself, Zachary Elwood. You know, like I said, I’ve always been hesitant to advertise your work to other people, mainly for selfish reasons. Um, but look, now that I’ve final tabled the main event, I’m happy to share my secret ’cause I’m good, man.
I’m quitting poker. Um, look, dude, your, you’re reading Poker Tells book, I think it was written in 2012. It’s still extremely relevant today, man. It’s crazy. Um, and the, the vi- the, the Poker Video Tell series, I gained a lot from that, right? I really love the fact that you’re able to use like real-life examples.
I don’t know if you update it. That would be really, really cool, but I, you know- Yeah … I cannot recommend that enough. Awesome. Thank you So yeah, look-
Zachary Elwood: No, that’s-
Rami Hammoud: Whoever’s listening to this It means a lot, Rami Yeah, who- yeah, of course. Whoever’s listening to this, like, no matter what level of poker player you are, if you want to gain an edge on a topic that most poker players are still ignoring today, then, you know, I definitely recommend getting your book, Reading Poker Tells, ASAP, dude.
Um, thank you, man. Thank you for your work. Thank you for your, for, for what you brought to us, you know? Without your work, I don’t know if I’d be able to be where I am today, at least in the poker world, so thank you again.
Zachary Elwood: Oh, thanks, Rami. That means a lot. Yeah. I appreciate it, you taking the time to, to say that.
Okay. Thanks a lot. Of course. Um, and we’ll end on the note of- Sure … I just wanna remind everybody, poker tells are worthless. Don’t go check them out, so just wanted to throw that in
Rami Hammoud: there. There you go.
Zachary Elwood: All right. Thank, thanks, Rami. That’s
Rami Hammoud: so funny.
Zachary Elwood: That was a talk with Rami Hamed, who got sixth place in this year’s World Series of Poker main event for $1.75 million.
I’m Zach Elwood. If you’d like to learn more about my work on poker tells, that’s at readingpokertells.com. And again, on that site, I have a new resource there with a list of frequently asked poker tells questions, which I think very well may be the most informative public resource on poker tells out there.
This has been the People Who Read People podcast, which you can learn more about at behavior-podcast.com. Music by Small Skies.